Talk:Andrew Scott (Canadian musician, born 1979)

Ok lets find some sources

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL..Moxy (talk) 19:48, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 1 September 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Also, at the present time, besides the fact that this discussion was never properly formatted as a multiple page move request, I see no consensus to move any other pages; any other pages can be nominated if need be. In addition, I will be retargeting Andrew Scott (Canadian musician) to Andrew Scott#Musicians as a {{R from incomplete disambiguation}} per the discussion below. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 15:22, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

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Andrew Scott (Canadian musician) → Andrew Scott (Canadian musician, born 1979) – I feel like this article's title doesn't disambiguate sufficiently, since it could also apply equally well to Andrew Scott (drummer). Does anyone have any ideas for a better one? Maybe add his birth year? 208.81.148.195 (talk) 00:17, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NCPDAB "Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators (readers are more likely to be seeking this information than to already know it), although this may be necessary when there are multiple people with the same name and tag". So the birth year is needed and the usual DAB when further disambiguation than the occupation is needed. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:13, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose as unnecessary WP:OVERPRECISION of a title. There are not multiple people with the same name and tag; only one is tagged "Canadian musician". No one is going to recognize this musician by his birth date, and since he gets <10% of the drummer's pageviews (2 per day), virtually no one is getting confused. For the rare person who is, the hatnote on this article is all we need. Station1 (talk) 22:27, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

  Just because an alternative qualifier is used doesn't mean this one is sufficient, for example the country would probably not be disambiguated with "(state)" but that doesn't mean Georgia (state) alone can be used for the US state. Artificial disambiguation generally has to be unambiguous like Yesterday (Beatles song) and Harris, Outer Hebrides although there is Nirvana (band) and Newport, Wales. Both people are referred to as a "Canadian musician". Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:58, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

  I see no evidence that the drummer is referred to as a "Canadian musician", at least not primarily. "Drummer" seems to be a much more recognizable qualifier for him. Changing qualifiers to birth year for both will make it more difficult for readers to tell them apart, not less. There may be a better qualifier for this article than "Canadian musician", but adding a year doesn't help. Station1 (talk) 02:33, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support if the drummer's is moved to "musician, born 1967", per the article itself "Scott also plays guitar and occasionally sings lead vocals with the band, usually on songs he has written." © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 22:56, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support rectifying obvious incomplete disambiguation. There are three musicians named "Andrew Scott" and three musicians named "Andy Scott" at the Andrew Scott#Musicians disambiguation page. Since all three musicians named "Andrew" (two guitarists, one drummer) are Canadian, the nationality within their parenthetical qualifiers should be specified for all or for none — Andrew Scott (Canadian musician, born 1967) and Andrew Scott (Canadian musician, born 1979) or Andrew Scott (musician, born 1967) and Andrew Scott (musician, born 1979). The other guitarist, Andrew Scott (Canadian jazz guitarist), does not have a specified birth year, but could be moved to Andrew Scott (Canadian jazz musician) or, if the nationality is deleted for the other two, to Andrew Scott (jazz musician) or Andrew Scott (jazz guitarist). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 09:52, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I Support this. There aren't just two ambiguous titles here, but three to six. Lazz_R 12:31, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom, pace Station1 who has missed the other musicians. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:43, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

  No, in fact I added a hatnote to Andy Scott (musician) just before I commented here, which was the only thing that needed to be done to any of the six articles. Station1 (talk) 02:33, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

  Andrew Scott (Canadian musician), Andrew Scott (musician), Andy Scott (musician) and Andy Scott (British musician) are all incomplete dabs which should redirect to the Andrew Scott#Musicians disambiguation page. Moreover, since Andy Scott (musician) will be nominated for a move to Andy Scott (drummer), the hatnote will become unnecessary per WP:NAMB. In fact, none of the musicians needs a hatnote since anyone searching for one of them, will simply type "Andy Scott" or "Andrew Scott" and sort it out at Andrew Scott#Musicians. On the other hand, anyone typing something specific, such as Andrew Scott (drummer) or Andy Scott (drummer) already knows the search target with certitude. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:40, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

  The current setup seems to be working fine. As you say, people typing Andy or Andrew Scott get to the dab page where it's clear who's who. For the few others, hatnotes are in place. There's no evidence of anyone getting lost. If you want to move things around, that could work just as well (although Andy Scott (musician) would still need a hatnote to distinguish him from Andrew Scott (drummer)). My main concern is to not start adding obscure birth years all over the place. Adding to one article, like this proposal, adds nothing but overprecision. Adding to 2 or more, unless they are generational or centuries apart, usually makes the subjects less recognizable to most readers. Station1 (talk) 15:24, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Finding a one-word qualifier for the current nomination is a challenge since all three musicians named "Andrew Scott" are Canadian and play the guitar, although one of them {Andrew Scott (drummer)} is best known as a drummer and should remain unchanged. Two of them (the drummer and the currently-nominated folk guitarist) are also vocalists and songwriters, causing those descriptions to be eliminated as incomplete dabs.

My suggestion for the current nomination would be Andrew Scott (folk guitarist), thus disambiguating him from the third musician, Andrew Scott (Canadian jazz guitarist), who should then be moved to simply Andrew Scott (jazz guitarist). As a result, no musician named ""Andrew Scott" would need to use a qualifier which indicates his birth year or describes him as Canadian, unless we'd want to emphasize, within their qualifiers, the different nationalities of the three musicians named "Andy Scott", two of whom are English and one is Welsh. Then, all three Canadians should also have their nationality specified within their qualifiers. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:20, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

I think "folk guitarist" is certainly more recognizable than his birth year. "Singer-songwriter" might also work if we just want to get rid of "Canadian". Station1 (talk) 06:17, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

The Andrew Scott (drummer) article indicates that he is likewise known as a singer-songwriter. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Although the drummer occasionally sings and writes songs, it's not clear that he's 'known' for that. But "folk guitarist" is just as good for here, as is any imperfect qualifier that is unique and reasonably recognizable. Hatnotes take care of the rest. Station1 (talk) 21:55, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per WP:INCDAB. The current title ambiguously applies to several different topics discussed on Wikipedia. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:32, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support this move 2601:541:4500:1760:745B:44C5:E7EE:B2E2 (talk) 18:20, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.