Talk:Albany, New York/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: –Grondemar 04:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

 Working At first glance this is an extremely impressive article; I'm excited to have the opportunity to review it! Be forewarned that due to the sheer size of the article, it will probably take me a week or two to complete my review. –Grondemar 04:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for taking on this review. Take your time. I'll be around to address comments on a regular basis. upstateNYer 16:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• My first observation is that the lead is too long. Per WP:LEAD, it should be four paragraphs at most. –Grondemar 02:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
  • I'll start cutting it down this weekend. upstateNYer 21:10, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
    • Lead looks good now, thanks. –Grondemar 05:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
• "Albany is the oldest surviving European settlement from the original thirteen colonies..." I read the FAQ on the talk page. The source provided for this assertion unfortunately only says that Albany claims to be the "oldest surviving settlement". I believe we need to include say that Albany claims to be the oldest surviving settlement, instead of "it is", or else find a better source. –Grondemar 04:14, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
  • I may make a statement like "Albany is one of the oldest cities in the nation" and add a note that different sources (now that I've researched it more) claim different things. But it's at least the fourth-oldest city in the country. Will also get on this this weekend. upstateNYer 21:10, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
    • Looks good now, thanks. –Grondemar 05:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Still reviewing (sorry for taking so long again), I found one more issue:

• I'm not sure File:Albany Dongan Charter partially unfolded.png is truly public-domain; the seal or whatever that is at the bottom appears to be a 3D element that would be enough to create a new copyright in the website picture. I'll ask one of the copyright experts to look into this tomorrow. –Grondemar 05:59, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • That has no effect. The objects, their styling, etc., were developed in the 1600s and are clearly out of copyright. You can't claim new copyright on a new image of a previously copyrighted work (for example; this was never subject to copyright because it's too old); similarly, you can't upload a photo of a statue that's still in copyright if the image is just of the statue. The photo of that statue is considered just another representation of the statue and a new copyright on the photo is illegal. Similarly, this is a photo or scan solely of an out of copyright work and a new copyright cannot be claimed. (Also, the Albany County Hall of Records makes no explicit claim of new copyright on the image; a general copyright on their webpage (which I'm sure there is) wouldn't be explicit enough to try to claim ownership of this - and if they did they'd receive an angry email from me, probably beginning with "How dare you..."). :) upstateNYer 15:34, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
    • OK, that works for me. –Grondemar 15:46, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

• "In 1797, the state capital of New York was moved permanently to Albany. From statehood to this date, the Legislature spent roughly equal time constantly moving between Albany, Kingston, Poughkeepsie, and the city of New York." These two sentences appear to contradict each other. Is there a better way to phrase this? –Grondemar 16:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
  • What this means is: Between the time of New York gaining statehood (1788), the Legislature bounced between the various cities. In 1797, Albany was named the official (permanent) capital. If you don't think that conveys that idea, then let me know if you think you have a clearer way to put it. I think it's pretty clear, but then again, I wrote it. :) upstateNYer 21:05, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
    • I misread "this date" as "this day", meaning today, 2010. :-) I added the word "previously" to make it just a bit clearer. –Grondemar 16:43, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

• That was a good fix. I could never word that well enough to not trip over it and even the copyeditor that worked on the article had a tough time. Now it reads very smoothly. upstateNYer 17:00, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Thanks! Could you add the distance figures for each of the cities? I didn't see them anywhere else in the article. –Grondemar 17:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
    • I think that's a bit too detailed. I haven't seen another city article that includes that kind of information. upstateNYer 18:07, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
• How is Gerald Jennings being mayor since 1994 consistent with "Long-term office holders became a thing of the past"? –Grondemar 17:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • That's a valid question and the comparison is relative. Compared to Corning (a 41-year mayor) and Stratton (a 30-year Congressman and 3-year mayor), the 16 years Jennings has been in the post is relatively short. Also, that reference is intended to be about the 1980s, before Jennings was even a blip on the screen. Suggestion to make it clearer? upstateNYer 17:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
    • I added "in the 1980s" to the end of the sentence. Easy fix. –Grondemar 18:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
• In the Education section, should Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in nearby Troy, NY be mentioned? –Grondemar 17:50, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Hmmm, I don't think so. This article is about the city of Albany, not the Albany area. The only reason I mention HVCC is because Albany doesn't have a community college (the next closest one is in Schenectady but it doesn't even compare to the reputation of HVCC). upstateNYer 17:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
    • OK, makes sense to me. –Grondemar 18:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
• In Transportation, in the paragraph about water transportation, maybe another brief mention of the Erie Canal due to its historical significance? –Grondemar 17:56, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Added, with source. upstateNYer 18:07, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
    • Perfect, thanks! –Grondemar 18:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
• What is the source of the data in the Historical populations table in Demographics? Perhaps you could add the superscripted link to the table title? –Grondemar 18:05, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
  • I'll get back to you soon on that. upstateNYer 18:07, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
    • I trust that you'll fix this shortly since you've been so diligent in responding to everything else I've asked. I see no reason to hold this article up any longer and am going to pass it as a Good Article. Congratulations, and sorry for taking so long! –Grondemar 18:18, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
      • Sources are there now. upstateNYer 20:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
        • Thanks! Good luck at WP:FAC! –Grondemar 21:02, 6 September 2010 (UTC)