Talk:Adrenal gland

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Pancreas location

See this graphic [1]. The pancreas juts into the spleen on one end, and the duodenum on the other. This first picture in this Adrenal gland article shows that the pancreas is between the two kidneys, which seems to be wrong.

GAN

CFCF and Tilifa Ocaufa I think this article is ready and I've put this article up for GAN with us three as conominators considering the work we've all put in. I hope that is OK! --Tom (LT) (talk) 12:46, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-GA workup

Prior to GA I'm going to make a few copyedits, which I hope are noncontroversial:

  • Removing as many acronyms as possible
  • Retitling "Epinephrine" to "Adrenaline" in view of the article's title ("Adrenal gland") and the predominant use of adrenaline throughout the article. --Tom (LT) (talk) 01:23, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I worry that the 'function' section isn't very accessible to the lay reader, who is probably not a university graduate or student of biology, and will try to make it more readable in the coming days. --Tom (LT) (talk) 01:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Steroidogenesis

Question... we have a lot on steroidogenesis, should we move most of it to the steroidogenesis article? --Tom (LT) (talk) 01:35, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, in fact the Steroid article (where steroidogenesis redirects to) could use some of the text in here. I think maybe we can move the whole cholesterol uptake paragraph. The rest of the section has some relevant concepts but can be more concise. Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 02:54, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Adrenal gland/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Looie496 (talk · contribs) 12:32, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm delighted to be able to review such an important article. On a preliminary reading it looks like there isn't much to be done -- I noticed a few spots where a little copy-editing could be done; I'll try to fix simple problems as I go if the fixes seem clearly uncontroversial. Looie496 (talk) 12:32, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My plan is to go over the article systematically. Since it is a long article that covers a lot of material, it will probably take a few days to go over the whole thing. I will start with the lead, and add points as I go.

Lead

  • How about adding a mention of the most important adrenal hormones to the first sentence? When Wikipedia articles show up in a Google search or on a mobile device the first sentence is very prominent, so this would be helpful to readers. Looie496 (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "consist of a number of different layers that directly influence the structure and function of the glands" -- this is extremely awkward wording. I don't even understand what it means. Looie496 (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in direct relationship with the sympathetic nervous system" -- I don't understand what this means. Looie496 (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The adrenal cortex is divided into three zones according to their functions and microscopic appearance" -- this sentence needs to say what the three zones are. Looie496 (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are "adrenaline" and "noradrenaline" the right terms to use? My understanding is that it is much more common nowadays to use "epinephrine" and "norepinephrine". Looie496 (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not in all parts of the world. We've decided to use this because of the title of the article (adrenal gland, adrenaline). --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:39, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done I don't quite agree, but I won't fight about it. Looie496 (talk) 12:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the third paragraph ("Regulation of synthesis...") could be deleted from the lead. If you think it needs to be there, it should be modified to make it clearer to the reader why the information it contains is of top-level importance. Looie496 (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for the lead, at least for now. (I made a few copy-edits in the process. Let me mention that the text shows numerous errors in the use of commas. The authors might find it beneficial to read up on the correct way of using them.) Looie496 (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Structure

  • "... and facilitates surgical removal of the kidneys without damage to the glands ..." -- this is unsourced and really off topic anyway -- consider removing? Looie496 (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done removed, agree this was off topic. --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:32, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not keen on the reference for the dimensions of the glands (a 1971 article about Rubella). Looie496 (talk) 16:34, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:17, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Cortex
  • "Specific cortical cells produce particular hormones including aldosterone, cortisol, and androgens such as androstenedione." What exactly does this mean? Each hormone is produced by a set of cells that produce only that hormone and no other? Looie496 (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:17, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Under normal unstressed conditions, the human adrenal glands produce the equivalent of 35–40 mg of cortisone acetate per day" What does "equivalent" mean here? Why is this useful to know? Looie496 (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done removed, not useful to know. --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:32, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Zona glomerulosa
  • "The expression of neuron-specific proteins ..." This whole paragraph is jibber-jabber to me. I don't think it belongs in this article. If it does, the reason why needs to come through much more clearly. Looie496 (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done removed . --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:32, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Zona fasciculata
  • "the zona fasciculata is responsible for producing mainly glucocorticoids such as cortisol" I don't understand what the word "mainly" means here. Looie496 (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:17, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • " responsible for the pale staining nature of the cytoplasm" What does "pale staining" mean here? Looie496 (talk) 14:38, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done reworded, readers do not really need to know about the pale staining, but they do about lipid droplets. --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:32, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Blood supply
  • "Note that the arteries supplying the suprarenal gland do not pass through the hilum." Why is this sentence here? In fact, why is the paragraph containing it here? Looie496 (talk) 15:00, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This has been reworded for the better, but it still needs to be made clearer why this information is important enough to belong in a basic article like this. Looie496 (talk) 12:17, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done (paragraph removed) Looie496 (talk) 12:01, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Variability
  • This short section needs to be fleshed out with information about what causes these variations and what their consequences are. If that is covered elsewhere in the article, summarize very briefly and give a pointer. Looie496 (talk) 15:00, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done (yet) Looie496 (talk) 12:26, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Function

  • information Note: I adjusted the placement of the first image. Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Corticosteroid production
  • It would be helpful to readers for this section to give a very brief description of what glucocortoids do, what the HPA axis does, what mineralocortoids do, and what the RAAS does. Perhaps this could be done in a short introductory paragraph, as for catecholamines in the following section? Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done (with a small copy-edit) Looie496 (talk) 12:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "proteic components" -- should this be protein components? Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • information Note: I moved the last sentence of the second paragraph to the first sentence of the third paragraph, as this seems to me to make the flow of logic much clearer. Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Catecholamine production
  • The second paragraph fails to mention the role of dopamine beta-hydroxylase in catalyzing the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine (with ascorbic acid as cofactor). Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Effects of adrenal hormones
  • I feel like there ought to be a brief account of species differences in here somewhere, as humans differ from other mammals (such as rodents) in some important respects. Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done The mention of corticosterone will suffice for the moment. I think the article could be improved by addition of an account of the comparative biology and evolution of the adrenal glands, but I won't hold up the GA for that -- I might add something myself after the review is over. Looie496 (talk) 12:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Mineralocorticoids
  • "Aldosterone is the main mineralocorticoid produced in the human body" If it is not the only one, how about saying something very briefly about the others. Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Reworded --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 06:50, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Its effects are on the distal convoluted tubule and collecting duct of the kidney" This wording makes it seem like these are the only effects, but later in the paragraph effects on the colon are described. Are there also active receptors in other parts of the body? Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Reworded and simplified. --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 06:50, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the second half of this paragraph gives too much detail. The roles of angiotensin and potassium in regulating aldosterone production should probably be mentioned, but I fell like the rest could be left out. Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done That was a verbatim copy of a paragraph in Aldosterone. I think it's alright there, but here it gives too much detail. I also removed most of the text about the RAAS (which is covered in "Regulation") and added one or two sentences to mention blood pressure. --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 06:50, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Glucocorticoids
  • I don't feel like the account here of cortisol effects is adequate. It does a lot more than that. Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 06:50, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Adrenal androgens
  • "In general, these hormones do not have an overall effect in the male body" This wording suggests that they do have an effect in the female body. If that's not true, the wording should be revised here. Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done (yet) Looie496 (talk) 12:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Adrenaline and noradrenaline
  • This section should briefly mention the sympathetic nervous system and the "fight or flight" response. Looie496 (talk) 16:25, 20 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Looie496 (talk) 12:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Development

  • I have copy-edited this section, but other than that there is very little that needs fixing. Looie496 (talk) 13:06, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Medulla
  • "this differentiation" The preceding sentence does not say anything about a differentiation. Presumably this refers to the differentiation of chromaffin cells from some sort of predecessor, but one way or another the paragraph needs to explicitly say what sort of differentiation is meant. Looie496 (talk) 13:06, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 06:52, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Clinical significance

  • How about adding a brief introductory paragraph at the start -- a sentence or two saying that diseases, tumors, or genetic conditions can cause the adrenal glands to malfunction in various ways. Looie496 (talk) 12:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 09:08, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I feel like each of the sections below should indicate how serious the condition is. Is it something a person can live with, or a serious impairment to life, or likely to be fatal? Can they be treated? Looie496 (talk) 12:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Adrenal insufficiency
  • This section could use an introductory sentence -- it took me a bit of effort to figure out that Addison's disease is a form of adrenal insufficiency. Looie496 (talk) 12:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 09:08, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Addison's disease
  • "An adrenal crisis is a medical emergency" -- the relationship between Addison's disease and adrenal crises needs to be stated explicitly. Looie496 (talk) 12:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 09:08, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Secondary and tertiary adrenal insufficiency
  • "Tertiary adrenal insufficiency results from a deficiency in the production of CRH (produced by the hypothalamus)." This needs to be fleshed out and referenced. Looie496 (talk) 12:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly I don't know how relevant the disease is, clinically. Harrison's and other sources barely mention it under the secondary insufficiencies – I removed it for now, but I don't mind putting it back if it needs to be there. --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 09:08, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Congenital adrenal hyperplasia
  • "production of other corticosteroids" If the human adrenal glands produce corticosteroids other than cortisol, this article ought to say so somewhere, and say something about what they are and what quantity they are produced in. Looie496 (talk) 12:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done – replaced corticosteroids with adrenal steroids. --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 09:08, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

History

  • I find no issues in this section, but the mention of cortisone at the end led me to look at that article, and it's clear to me that this article ought to cover it in the corticosteroid section. Looie496 (talk) 12:58, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
 Done – I replaced that bit about cortisone to reflect what the source states, but also added a sentence or two about cortisone in Function. --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 09:49, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Responses

Thanks very much for your detailed review, Looie496, it is really appreciated. I'll try to make some immediate changes and anything that needs references I'll respond to within a week or two. I'm sorry it can't be sooner. --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:38, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Tilifa Ocaufa I'll leave editing to you at the moment, I think you may be online :).--Tom (LT) (talk) 08:35, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have made a number of edits to generally improve readability and will continue, and respond to some more of your review, tomorrow. Finished for today. --Tom (LT) (talk) 09:22, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • And (finished) today. --Tom (LT) (talk) 09:50, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Passing

I'm going to approve this article now. There are a couple of issues I raised above that haven't been addressed, but I'm comfortable that the article is easily good enough to be rated GA. Best wishes! Looie496 (talk) 12:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your thorough review and friendly manner, Looie496.--Tom (LT) (talk) 23:00, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for your review Looie, I feel the article improved in quality and readability. I'll go through the points that left unanswered as I search for sources over the next days. See you around --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 02:13, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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