Talk:Mantled howler/GA1

From WikiProjectMed
Jump to navigation Jump to search

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch
I enjoyed the last primate GAR review I did, so I signed up for this one too. Should be done by the weekend. Sasata (talk) 21:11, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
    Easy to read, some minor tweaks in prose suggested. A few things could be wikilinked, and a light copyedit would benefit the references. See comments.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c(OR):
    Mostly well-referenced, with a good proportion of secondary sources. A couple of specific citations are suggested.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    Coverage seems broad.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b(appropriate use with suitable captions):
    Images have appropriate licenses.
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    Pending improvements.

Another informative article on our monkey cousins. The nominator has addressed all reviewer comments, and it meets all GA criteria, so I am happy to promote it. Sasata (talk) 23:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • The lead looks good.
    • Thanks!
  • Was wondering why you use the American spelling for color, but the British for behaviour? Not a complaint or anything, just curious.
  • "The brain of an adult Mantled Howler is about 55.1 g (1.94 oz)." This is your chance to tell us about the larger brain of its smaller White-Headed capuchin cousin :)
  • It would be cool to see what this hyoid bone looks like, any chance of finding a free picture? If not don't worry about it, just though it might enhance the educational value.
  • "The Mantled Howler is native to Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua and Panama.[3] Its range includes most of Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama." It's not clear to me the distinction that's being made here. Is the text differentiating between its "native" habitat and its range, i.e. it is native to Mexico, Colombia, Ecuador, Guatemala, but its range isn't in these places? Please clarify.
    • I was trying to describe the extent of the range within each country. It is ubiquitous throughout Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama, but only occurs in specified parts of the other countries. I tried to reword to clarify. Rlendog (talk) 20:21, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is riverine? Wikilink evergreen forest
    • Wikilinked evergreen forest. I tried to reword riverine forest to clarify, but realized that although it is in the source, it doesn't really fit - i.e., riverine forests can be primary, secondary or evergreen, or various other types, including those listed, as long as the forest is along a river. Rlendog (talk) 20:21, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, affiliative associations between the capuchins and howlers do sometimes occur, mostly involving juveniles playing together; at other times the capuchins and howlers may feed in the same tree, apparently ignoring each other.[15]" I suggest the small tweak to join the two sentences and lose a dup citation.
  • "It will also sometimes leap to get to another limb.[20]" Not sure why this fact needs to be cited (or even mentioned). Don't all monkeys do that? (forgive my primate ignorance if this is not the case)
  • "It marks its scent by rubbing its throat on branches." Interesting. Why the throat and not some more obviously stinky body part?"
  • "The Mantled Howler is often indifferent to the presence of humans. However, when it is disturbed by people, it often express its irritation..." Change one of the 'often's for better flow.
  • "Adults invite mating by flicking their tongues." Curious to know if it is both sexes that do this.
  • "... since males smell the females' genitals and taste their urine." This is urine the female has expelled on the ground somewhere, right?
    • I would assume urine that is caught in the trees rather than on the ground. There is no more information on this for the Mantled Howler in the source. Defler's book does describe something similar for a different howler species (p. 392), where he described males smelling the female's urine "by sticking their nose in the puddles of urine or in the stream". But it doesn't specify the method the male Mantled Howlers use to taste its females' urine. Rlendog (talk) 20:21, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, many infants do not reach sexual maturity; high ranking adults sometimes harass or kill the offspring of lower ranking monkeys to eliminate competition for their own offspring." Competition for what? Mates? Food? The upper-class lifestyle and privileges of the alpha-male?
  • I saw a few copyediting issues in the references, e.g., double periods in refs 3, 6, 7, 22, 25, 26, 27; use of '&' instead of 'and' in refs 3 and 27; some journal citations have unnecessary month in the date, etc.
  • As Jack mentions below, images under section headers should be avoided. I think this can be fixed pretty easily in the Reproduction section, but understand it may be difficult for the Communication section. Is the stick-breaking picture necessary (does it illustrate anger?); if not perhaps consider removing it because it's the lowest resolution.
    • I am sure that monkey was annoyed, though whether it was due to the people watching it from below, or another group of howlers in the area, I am not sure (the photo of the howler howling was taken 2 minutes later and pretty clearly in response to competing howlers). But since I am not sure the cause of the stick breaking, I removed that picture and moved the howling one. I actually have video on my camcorder of both of these, but I have not been able to figure out how to get it into an appropriate format to load into Commons. I did not move the Reproduction photo, since that was under a == header rather than a ==== header, but I can try to move it if that is a problem too. Rlendog (talk) 20:21, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. Once again, I think they are very helpful and improved the article. I addressed most of them and responded to the ones that I was not able to completely address. Rlendog (talk) 20:21, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Jack

Few general comments,

  • The page should probably follow the page organisation here.
  • Why is it compared to Geoffroy's Spider Monkey? Is it a type species?
  • Image under 'Communication' should be right-aligned per WP:IMAGE.
  • Are there too many references from The Natural History of Costa Rican Mammals? It's probably fine, just wondering.

Other than that the article is looking great, Jack (talk) 23:02, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    • Basically, the differences from the page organization shown is that I moved the taxonomy section down and the distribution and range section up. This organization seemed to flow better, as it seems that a lay reader would most likely be first interested in what it looks like and where it lives. And the taxonomy section is more specialized, which is why I put it at the end. This organization also seemed to work for other Central American monkeys, such as Central American Squirrel Monkey and White-headed Capuchin. But its easy enough to change if it is a problem.
      Fair enough, maybe this should be brought up at WP:PRIM? Jack (talk) 10:38, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I removed the spider monkey comparison. The reason for making the comparison was that Geoffroy's Spider Monkey is the largest sympatric monkey. But since that wasn't addressed in the body of the text, and it isn't really necessary, I removed it from the lead. Alternatively, I can restore it to the lead and note it in the body, if reviewers think it is valuable (although I may not have a ref explicitly stating the comparison, just the body size stats of the 2 species).
      It just seemed out of place in the lead, maybe elsewhere with your explanation of the reason for the comparison? Jack (talk) 10:38, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not sure about the image placement. I thought they were supposed to alternate positions to the extent possible and, more importantly, face the text. I am not finding either of these in the link, but I remember it being an issue during the Primate FAC. And it probably would not look right facing away from the text.
      You're right, I meant to link to MOS:IMAGE really. It recommends you don't have images immediately underneath subheadings, "Do not place left-aligned images directly below a subsection-level heading (=== or lower), as this sometimes disconnects the heading from the text that follows it. This can often be avoided by shifting left-aligned images down a paragraph or two." Jack (talk) 10:38, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'm not sure there is a better place. I tried moving it down a bit, but that breaks up the first paragraph, which I don't think should be broken up. And the image works best next to that paragraph, since it describes howling. And for a howler monkey, howling really needs to be the first paragraph of the "communication" section. Rlendog (talk) 14:53, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Another possible solution if the placement is a problem would be to make the "Communication" section a (==) level heading. For a howler monkey, that may be appropriate, although it would still be a short section. Rlendog (talk) 15:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • That source had a lot of good information readily available. Some of it overlaps other sources, so I could swap references if necessary, but I don't think it is.Rlendog (talk) 02:53, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Mantled_howler/GA1"