Talk:2023–2024 Manipur violence

From WikiProjectMed
Jump to navigation Jump to search


Illegal immigrants

I was curious about this edit of Iskandar323, which introduced this passage under the summary of "copyediting".

In 2023, the state government in Manipur began efforts to remove what it claimed where illegal immigrants from settlements in reserve forest areas. Officials stated that illegal immigrants from Myanmar had been settling in Manipur since the 1970s.[1]

References

  1. ^ Das, Yudhajit Shankar (4 May 2023). "Manipur violence: State is burning, but what is the decades-old fuel behind the fire". India Today. Archived from the original on 4 May 2023. Retrieved 4 May 2023.

In a later edit, they deleted the scratched out phrase.

The first sentence apparently comes from this statement in the source:

But Meiteis say that the protest against ST status is just a facade. The Kukis are unnerved by the state government's drive to remove illegal immigrants from settlements in reserve forest areas.

The second sentence from these statements in the source:

"Kukis are migrating illegally from across the Myanmar border and occupying forest land in Manipur. Recently, the Manipur government started an eviction drive to clear illegal settlements in reserve forest areas. The drive was in all areas, including those inhabited by Meiteis and Muslims, but only the Kukis are protesting," says Chand Meetei Pocshangbam of the All Meitei Council.

"Meiteis are demanding an NRC because of the sudden population spike in the last two decades in areas bordering Myanmar. Illegal immigrants from Myanmar have been settling in Manipur since 1970s but the movement has intensified now," he says.

Apparently, "Chand Meetei Pochshangbam of the All Meitei Council" has turned into "officials", and his claims climbed out of the quote marks. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:55, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you check the diff, I didn't introduce the material, but merely moved it from one section to another. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:20, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the block of edits that you made. This content wasn't present before your edits. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:38, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Change it as you see fit. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:14, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Background section on refugees

I have deleted from the mainspace a huge section on refugees from Myanmar, which is growing and growing. Please note that material in the background sections has to be validated by sources that connect it to the present topic. You can't simply add whatever you personally think is relevant. That would be considered WP:OR. Also, all the material concerning Mizoram should be deleted. Pinging Chaipau for his input.

The renewed outbreak of civil war in Myanmar[1][2] has caused an influx of refugees in the states of Manipur and Mizoram. Dozens of illegal immigrants, including ex-security, forces reportedly entered Manipur.[3][4] In July 2023, there were an estimated 50,000 refugees who had fled into India.[5]

While the Myanmar refugees are given familial treatment with compassion to take shelter by the state government of Mizoram, the Manipur government's view on the matter is somewhat divergent.[6][7] Dominant Zo-Kuki demographic of Manipur's Churachandpur district which borders the state of Mizoram, and the dominant Mizos have strong ethnic relation with each other and also with Kukis of Myanmar. While Chief Minister Zoramthanga of Mizoram, under his governance, shows a sense of compassion towards refugees including ex-forces of Myanmar, at least some Zo-Kuki portion in Manipur are not happy with the attitude of Manipur government, under the leadership of Chief Minister N Biren Singh, towards them who are, if not together, in the proximity of Myanmar immigrants.[8][9]

In addition to the influx, drug trafficking, spillover of the war and the Myanmar junta's use of aerial bombing and napalm has destabilized the border region.[10] In January 2023, the Myanmar Air Force carried out airstrikes [11] targeting the Myanmar-based Chin National Army's headquarters, near the India-Myanmar border. The air attacks violated Indian airspace and soil, according to local Mizo organizations and the international research and advocacy organization Fortify Rights.[12] India expressed its concern to the junta about its military actions near its sensitive northeastern region in the wake of massive exodus of refugees into India.[5] Minister of Home Affairs Amit Shah stated that the influx of Kuki people from Myanmar created insecurity amongst the Meitei people of Manipur and triggered the violence. According to ground reports, many refugees also brought arms with them and instigated drug turf wars.[13]

References

  1. ^ Emily Fishbein (25 January 2023). "Fears of escalation after Myanmar air raids near India border". Al Jazeera.
  2. ^ "Junta forces conduct airstrikes on PDF camp near India-Myanmar border". The Frontier Manipur. 2023-03-23.
  3. ^ Bismee Taskin (2021-03-21). "'If we don't obey, they shoot us' — why many Myanmar policemen are escaping to India". ThePrint.
  4. ^ "Manipur illegal immigrants: 718 from Myanmar entered the state on July 22-23, claims army officer's letter to Chandel DC". India Today NE. 2023-07-24.
  5. ^ a b "India Asks Myanmar to Avoid Actions That Aggravate Border Situation". The Wire. 16 July 2023.
  6. ^ Bismee Taskin; Pia Krishnankutty (2021-03-24). "Why Mizoram sees Myanmar refugees as 'family' — close ethnic ties that have survived a border". ThePrint.
  7. ^ Bikash Singh (2023-07-26). "Two North Eastern states – Manipur and Mizoram – have divergent views on Myanmar refugees". The Economic Times. ISSN 0013-0389.
  8. ^ "8 Myanmar nationals with bullet injuries in Manipur hospital spark allegations of illegal influx". India Today NE. 2023-07-11.
  9. ^ "Assam Rifles Says Myanmar Nationals With Bullet Injuries Not Involved in Manipur Violence". The Wire.
  10. ^ Mehta, Ashok K. "Manipur conflict rages on amid Myanmar civil war". The Tribune.
  11. ^ "Five killed in junta airstrike on Chin resistance force headquarters near Myanmar-India border". Myanmar Now. January 12, 2023.
  12. ^ "Fears of escalation after Myanmar air raids near India border". Al Jazeera.
  13. ^ {{cite web |title=Myanmar’s Civil War Blowing Up India’s Act East Policy |url=https://indepthnews.net/myanmars-civil-war-blowing-up-indias-act-east-policy/ |website=In Depth New |last=Seneviratne |first=Kalinga |date=9 December 2023||

-- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:19, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the paring down by @Kautilya3. Immigration as a contributing factor has emerged ex post facto, after the fact, and should not be placed in the background section. Chaipau (talk) 04:27, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The sub-section had a lot of contribution from my side. Would have considered looking if it fits in other sections example: Overview. I don't fully agree removing all of it as such as it also explains genuine sentiments of the Kukis, to some extent their displeasure towards the Manipur govt. vis-a-vis Mizoram govt. which also had some voiced audibly. But anyways if two editors agree on the same edit (more of a deletion), I respect. Okenkhwairakpam (talk) 13:17, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 April 2024

Addition of Aigejang Shooting to the See Also section. Minmarion (talk) 17:20, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 On hold pending whether the page Aigejang Shooting passes review by new page patrollers or not. If so, will add. —Sirdog (talk) 03:38, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind, no harm in just adding it now. If the link becomes red enough people are watching this page where it'll be swiftly removed.  Done. —Sirdog (talk) 00:03, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recurrent violence

After perusal of the content and sources cited, I have removed these

"On 17 June, the Archbishop of Imphal stated that 249 churches have been burnt in Manipur.[1]

The state police face allegations of siding with the dominant Meitei community.[2] In an effort to call for peace, opposition leaders visited the violence-affected areas on 29 July.[3]

On 14 December bodies of 64 recently killed were handed to their families.[4]"

Reasons:

  1. WP:Relevance of content - The content does not have any relevance at all to the section (Recurrent violence)
  2. Also in view of MOS:Oversection
  3. Without any relevance to the section and far from Manual of Style, it is bloating the article

If any of our respected editors and anyone for that matter think it otherwise, please come up with your valuable points, so that we can discuss.

Thank you. Okenkhwairakpam (talk) 18:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Archbishop of Imphal claims 249 churches burnt in Manipur: 'Religious attack carried out'". The Indian Express. 2023-06-17.
  2. ^ Dhillon, Amrit (2023-05-16). "'Separation is the only answer': Manipur violence fuels calls for separate state in India". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077.
  3. ^ ""When They Return From Manipur...": BJP's Dare To Visiting Opposition MPs". NDTV.com.
  4. ^ "India: Bodies of 64 killed in Manipur violence handed to families". 15 December 2023.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 June 2024

Please also highlight the fact that most of the encroachers evicted by the current dispensation are from the Meitei community. 122.164.102.52 (talk) 07:18, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 08:11, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

393 temples supposedly destroyed

Link to revert

Luwanglinux, Two sources were provided for this claim:

Both Imphal-based newspapers, who do not have access to the Kuki-dominated hill districts. Where does their information come from? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:36, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by Imphal based newspaper having no access to Kuki dominated hill districts, I think you are quite misleaded here, there are Pangal community Naga community ( which some are correspondence of Imphal based newspaper) who can access all area of Manipur being groups uninvolved to this ethnic clash. also most of temples and shrines destroyed are uploaded through social media and many are located at the fringe. 🐲 ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯪ ꯋꯥ ꯍꯥꯏꯐꯝ (talk) 01:07, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If they have correspondents, the newspapers are obliged to tell us so. They put like "Special correspondent", "Churachandpur correspondent" etc. There is none. This is just recycled propaganda. Some nonsense organisation called "UKAL" (whose name The imphal Free Press can't even spell right), which is reproduced by supposed "Meitei Christian victims". This is not "news", just rumour like in social media. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 06:17, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
why are you lebelling an org as nonsense ? also if that is the only issue why are you reverting the other edits ? 🐲 ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯪ ꯋꯥ ꯍꯥꯏꯐꯝ (talk) 07:44, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
UKAL short form of Umang Lai Kanba Lup is not any nonsense org as stated by Kautilya3, its an organisation established in 1979 for conserving the heritage of Lai Haraoba UKAL [1]

The Umanglai Kanba Apunba Lup (UKAL) organization based in Manipur conducted extensive research and investigation to identify the desecrated sacred sites, which include those dedicated to ancestral and local deities from the pantheon of Sanamahi religion, as well as traditional Hindu mandirs. Working Committee on Protection of Meitei Temples (under the UKAL) informed that 393 Meitei temples and shrines were destroyed and burnt by Kuki militants. WCPMT convenor Mutum Maniton denounced that Kuki militants not only destroyed the shrines & temples but in some instances also humiliated the Meitei community by first kicking and spitting on the sacred sites before burning them. While stating that the committee has been collecting the data of the temples destroyed by Kuki militants, he urged people to give information if some destroyed temples have been missed out, by visiting UKAL headquarters located at Konung Mamang and submitting evidence in form of photos.... Out of 393 desecrated/destroyed sites, 223 Hingkhol Lai (homestead deity/Ishta devi in the pantheon of Sanamahi religion) shrines were desecrated: 41 in Kakching, 72 in Churachandpur, 20 in Bishnupur, 43 in Tengnoupal, 30 in Imphal East, 4 in Imphal West and 13 in Kangpokpi. 110 sites dedicated to Apokpa Laipham, the ancestral deity of the Meiteis, were also desecrated: 15 in Tengnoupal, 38 in Churachandpur, 22 in Bishnupur, 23 in Kakching, 9 in Imphal East and 3 in Kangpokpi. 44 laishang (holy shrines) dedicated to worship of forest deity Umang Lai were desecrated: 3 in Tengnoupal, 11 in Churachandpur, 4 in Kakching, 3 in Imphal East, 10 in Kangpokpi, 6 in Bishnupur and 7 in Imphal West district...[2]

It is said there was an extensive research done by UKAL to identify temples desecrated or destroyed in the violence 🐲 ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯪ ꯋꯥ ꯍꯥꯏꯐꯝ (talk) 08:44, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, your sources didn't provide any information about it, one even misspelt its name! If it is a respectable organistion, I withdraw my description. But still, we have no idea how it got its information and how reliable it is.

Umang Lai is described as a sacred grove.and the image shown is that of a tree. It is fine if people worship trees, but you can't go around calling them "temples".

The overwhelming majority of the 393 so-called "temples" are Hingkhol lais, which are described as homestead deities. Once again, it is doubtful if we can call them temples.

The Hindu Post article mentions 16 "Hindu mandirs", the only ones that can be classified as "temples", and these are said to have been "completely destroyed or desecrated". So, how many were actually destroyed? We have no idea. "Desecration" can mean a wide range of things, ranging from knocking down a gate to actually damaging the image of worship. It is too vague a description.

The article also claims that the Churachandpur Radha-Krishna temple was "completely destroyed or desecrated". Given that the article is gung-ho about twitter posts, I can't see how it ignored a TV footage showing the temple to be in tact, and Hindu demonstrators with placards saying "Don't believe in rumours"!

I am afraid it is all wishy-washy information/misinformation with no clarity. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:26, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Thounaojam, Ruhichand (2020). Establishment of Cultural Resource Centre in the Shrines of Umanglai: A Proposal (1st ed.). Routledge (published 25 November 2020). pp. 297–307. ISBN 9781003132745.
  2. ^ "393 Meitei temples and shrines, including 16 Hindu mandirs, desecrated or destroyed during Manipur conflict". hindupost.in. 2023-08-22. Retrieved 2024-06-25.
Retrieved from "https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Talk:2023–2024_Manipur_violence"