Talk:Greek Orthodox Church (disambiguation)

Requested move 20 January 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. This does not preclude an AfD discussion for Greek Orthodox Church, nor does it preclude an RfC or discussion at a relevant WikiProject talk page to seek broader consensus on the changes to that article, which have been contested in this RM. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 16:30, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

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• Greek Orthodox Church (disambiguation) → Greek Orthodox Church
• Greek Orthodox Church → ?

– The lede of Greek Orthodox Church clearly indicate that the topic of the article is in fact two different topics (three if Church of Greece is taken into account). Those topics are different enough to warrant turning the article purely into a DAB.

See also the previous discussions at Talk:Greek Orthodox Church#Contradictory definitions and Talk:Greek Orthodox Church#Sources given for the lede + name. Veverve (talk) 10:24, 20 January 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 03:42, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Note: articles with content are ineligible as new titles in move requests unless they, too, are proposed to be renamed. If consensus here is to delete in order to make way for the first proposed move, then a gentle reminder that this is not WP:AfD, which is the venue for such a discussion. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 15:22, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Proposer seems to think that a discussion with just three people involved is enough to destroy an article existing from 2003. The Banner talk 11:18, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I have no idea what your argument is to oppose this very RM (that the article should be AfDed?). At this point, it seems you simply take it personnaly. Veverve (talk) 11:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

And I have really no clue why you see my oppose as "taking it personally". Is it illegal to refer to a discussion with just 3 people (with two voters) involved that you claim shows consensus??? The Banner talk 14:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

That's not really an argument in favor of the page based on its merits. There is no policy that says a page's lengthy history means it cannot be critiqued or converted. natemup (talk) 12:09, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support: The page isn't legitimate as it stands. It's trying to cover multiple distinct topics, which already have their own (recently split) pages. natemup (talk) 12:11, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
• Support This is the page most likely to be helpful to the reader. The third item in the disam is arguably not needed. Johnbod (talk) 14:00, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. In the first proposal the Greek Orthodox Church article can be considered a "broad-concept article" as described at WP:DABCONCEPT. It should be kept as is. The dab page can also be helpful to readers of Wikipedia, so it can also stand as is. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 15:45, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

  It states "If the primary meaning of a term proposed for disambiguation is a broad concept or type of thing that is capable of being described in an article, and a substantial portion of the links asserted to be ambiguous are instances or examples of that concept or type, then the page located at that title should be an article describing it and not a disambiguation page. Where the primary topic of a term is a general topic that can be divided into subtopics, such as chronologically (e.g., History of France) or geographically (e.g., Rugby union in the British Isles), the unqualified title should contain an article about the general topic rather than a disambiguation page."

  The article Greek Orthodox Church does not qualify at all as such. Veverve (talk) 16:23, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• Comment, the current content of Greek Orthodox Church fills a gap by providing information about Eastern Orthodox church bodies using Greek as the liturgical language. In order to pursue the proposed move, there should be either a clear solution what should happen with that content or clear arguments why that content is undesirable and should be deleted. In the discussion so far I am not seeing either of these directions. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:49, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

  If you refer to the "Churches" section: this content is unsourced for the most part, and the only sourced part is one stating the Albanian Orthodox Church is Greek without explaining how and why. Therefore, it can be deleted. Veverve (talk) 08:13, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

  So you have no intent in improving the information nowadays present? You prefer destruction? The Banner talk 17:21, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

  Yes; WP:CHEWINGGUM. Veverve (talk) 17:22, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

  Then you should have mentioned it earlier that you want this page move to be able to destroy info that you do not like. The Banner talk 18:15, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

  I have no idea why you accuse me of this; WP:AGF. Veverve (talk) 18:21, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support, the page is confusing. Its lead does explain that there are more than two definitions for the article's name, yet the article itself does not include in its body all of the information. I think the problem is that it tries to merge two different time-sensitive definitions in regard to development of the Eastern Orthodox Church community with merging of the current Greek Church and the preceding Byzantine Church which partially is correct, however the Byzantine Church has been "shattered" figuratively speaking with the onslaught of the Seljuk Turks and revived with its fragmented decedents scattered throughout the Eastern Europe including the Balkans. It should be noted that the Byzantine Church is considered to be the mother church not only for the Greek Church but also for many other autocephalous church throughout the Eastern Europe and Balkans as well as those under jurisdiction of the Latin Church, such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and similar churches. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:53, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. The article was better before the nominator's tendentious editing. See here. It should be restored. Srnec (talk) 03:50, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

  @Srnec what tendentious editing? I explained those edits at the talk page. Veverve (talk) 06:35, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

  And where can I find that explanation? The Banner talk 10:45, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

  Talk:Greek Orthodox Church#Sources given for the lede + name. Again, I have no idea how those edits can be considered as tendentious. The current ref for the lede is very reliable. Veverve (talk) 10:49, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

  So Srnec is referring to edits in April 2021 while you state that the explanation only followed in December 2021. The Banner talk 10:52, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

  Then I have no idea what Srnec is referring to. Veverve (talk) 10:57, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.