Talk:Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory

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On 14 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Joe Biden–Viktor Shokin–Burisma conspiracy theory. The result of the discussion was not moved.

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Lev Parnas testimony

It's about time to update this article and those mentioned here (sources below). Lev Parnas has named multiple parties who knowingly peddled Russian lies about Joe Biden: The GOP, Fox News and a few other right-wing media groups, Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Devin Nunes, Pete Sessions, Ron Johnson, John Solomon, and Sean Hannity.

Some sources, with properly formatted refs, ready for use:

Lev Parnas, ex-Giuliani associate, testified allegations against Bidens are false and 'spread by the Kremlin'^[1]
Comer Keeps Stepping In It as Impeachment Witness Dishes Dirt on Giuliani^[2]
Written Statement of Lev Parnas, March 19, 2024^[3]

Political strategist Rachel Bitecofer wrote: "House Republicans knew their source was a Russian asset, the same House Republicans did the same thing during the Ukraine blackmail impeachment where intel told them their info was Russian disinformation but they used it anyway." She described Republicans as "a national security risk".

Pings: Soibangla, Muboshgu, Zaathras, Victorgrigas, KiharaNoukan, Darknipples -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His testimony was relevant to this page. What do you propose to add? – Muboshgu (talk) 16:40, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I now see that Soibangla has already added something good to the Parnas article, and that might be good here. I'll let Soibangla do it. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:22, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is that addition to the Lev Parnas article (I have tweaked the ref format and added a wikilink):

At the invitation of committee Democrats, on March 20, 2024, Lev Parnas testified before the House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family that was pursuing the impeachment of President Joe Biden. Parnas testified, in part:^[4]

The American people have been lied to, by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own interests knowing it would undermine the strength of our nation ... Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson and many others understood they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we approach the 2024 elections ... The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents.

This might be good here. I'll install it. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With added references it looks like this:

At the invitation of committee Democrats, on March 20, 2024, Lev Parnas testified before the House Oversight Committee investigation into the Biden family that was pursuing the impeachment of President Joe Biden.^[1]^[2]^[3] Parnas testified, in part:^[4]

The American people have been lied to, by Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and various cohorts of individuals in government and media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own interests knowing it would undermine the strength of our nation ... Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes, Senator Ron Johnson and many others understood they were pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean Hannity and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020 elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we approach the 2024 elections ... The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents.

Valjean (talk) (PING me) 06:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b Fitzpatrick, Sarah; Concepcion, Summer (March 20, 2024). "Lev Parnas, ex-Giuliani associate, testified allegations against Bidens are false and 'spread by the Kremlin'". NBC News. Retrieved March 21, 2024.
^ ^a ^b Rohrlich, Justin (March 20, 2024). "Comer Keeps Stepping In It as Impeachment Witness Dishes Dirt on Giuliani". The Daily Beast. Retrieved March 21, 2024.
^ ^a ^b Parnas, Lev (March 19, 2024). "Written Statement of Lev Parnas, March 19, 2024" (PDF). House Oversight Committee. Retrieved March 21, 2024.
^ ^a ^b Walsh, Sheri (March 20, 2024). "At House impeachment inquiry hearing, key witness Lev Parnas blasts Republicans for pushing 'falsehoods'". UPI. Retrieved March 22, 2024.

Suggest removing “false” from opening sentence

I referred a friend of mine who supports Trump to this article. He noted that the first sentence says “false accusations”. He sees this as revealing bias in the article. I think removing the word “false” from the first sentence would reduce any resistance to accepting the rest of the article (which clearly documents that the allegations are false). 98.97.92.82 (talk) 14:59, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first paragraph of any article on Wikipedia is a summary of the sourced content of the remainder of the article. So if the body of the sourced content emphatically says something is false, as supported in reliable sources, then the lead should reflect that. Whether somebody wishes to disbelieve the article isn't Wikipedia's problem. Acroterion (talk) 18:30, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The problem is the political bias. The words "false" and "conspiracy theory", both in the lead, show such bias and should be removed. Fx6893 (talk) 01:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No we will not be making changes, as the Wikipedia follows reliable sources. Also, consider widening your friend circle. Zaathras (talk) 01:51, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The term "conspiracy theory" is defined as having a derogatory connotation (see Wiktionary, for example). Employing derogatory terms in the lead reveals the bias of the editors and their attempts to disparage those with differing views, similar to your personal remarks about the commenter's friends. It's politically motivated bullying, and erodes the credibility of the encyclopedia. Fx6893 (talk) 00:29, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:AGF WP:CIV You need to stop personal attacks against editors with whom you disagree. Comment on content -- not on editors. O3000, Ret. (talk) 00:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those words are accurate descriptions from RS. We do not censor RS or whitewash content. Your gripe is with reliable sources, not with the myriad editors of all political persuasions who worked together, and discussed those words, to create this article. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 00:52, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Not when RS say it. We document the facts. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, we follow what the reliable sources have to say. What your mate feels about having reality shown to them is highly irrelevant. TarnishedPath^talk 07:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Fitzpatrick_Concepcion_3/20/2024-1] Fitzpatrick, Sarah; Concepcion, Summer (March 20, 2024). "Lev Parnas, ex-Giuliani associate, testified allegations against Bidens are false and 'spread by the Kremlin'". NBC News. Retrieved March 21, 2024.

[Rohrlich_3/20/2024-2] Rohrlich, Justin (March 20, 2024). "Comer Keeps Stepping In It as Impeachment Witness Dishes Dirt on Giuliani". The Daily Beast. Retrieved March 21, 2024.

[Parnas_HOC_3/19/2024-3] Parnas, Lev (March 19, 2024). "Written Statement of Lev Parnas, March 19, 2024" (PDF). House Oversight Committee. Retrieved March 21, 2024.

[Walsh_3/20/2024-4] Walsh, Sheri (March 20, 2024). "At House impeachment inquiry hearing, key witness Lev Parnas blasts Republicans for pushing 'falsehoods'". UPI. Retrieved March 22, 2024.

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Talk:Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory

Lev Parnas testimony

Suggest removing “false” from opening sentence

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