User talk:YBG

NaCl polyhedra

Hi, I hope you can help me out as I have nominated this image to become a Featured Picture and now there is some questions about this image.
I hope you have the knowledge to provide answers to the questions at this link. The questions are;
1) This representation is different to all the others I've Googled. Does it have Academic authentication?
2) But could you add to the description about which colors are which elements.
I'm a graphic worker and have no knowledge of this subject.
I really hope you can help me or tell me someone else who might be able, thanks. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:15, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

I have got the needed information from another user so this is  Done, thanks. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 19:55, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Template:List of aqueous ions/header

My edit was to get Template:List of aqueous ions/header out of Wikipedia:Database reports/Invalid Navbar links when it next runs. Your revert will mean that it remains in the report. Please also note that the namespace prefix is unnecessary. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:14, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Redrose64, I saw you did the same in here. But actually, the v-t-e links should lead to the templatepage with the content. The database report title is wrong in these cases. I have no idea on how to prevent these, eh, incorrect edits. -DePiep (talk) 16:28, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Why is a navbar needed anyway? How often is an edit to Template:List of aqueous ions required, for which a navbar would make that edit easier to carry out? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Is an unrelated question. (The answer is in the wiki principles). -DePiep (talk) 12:26, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Excluding navbars from infrequently edited templates could be misunderstood as a claim of WP:OWNership. Including them is a subtle way of inviting editors to collaborate.

I have modified the parent template to pass the navbar in as a parameter so that it only appears in the parent template, and not when the header appears independently or as a part of testcases. This should remove it from next month's report. @DePiep: perhaps this same technique could be used in {{ISO 15924 script codes and related Unicode data}} and its /header sub-template.

In my opinion, the process that generates these reports should explicitly recognize the template-header pattern and make provision for it, not by excluding them as it apparently does /sandbox templates, but by stripping off the /header (or perhaps /anything) before making the comparison.

In an unrelated side note, so that the content inside the template or block is more easily editable in situ where it was found, without having track it down through examining transclusion code. (as it says in {{navbar}}, I had contemplated making the edit link point to the /data subtemplate, which I expect would be the most likely place editors would wish to make changes.

YBG (talk) 14:31, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Needslessly complicating (isn't this why the header is separated in the first place?), and only use would be to mislead a non-understanding administrative bot. -DePiep (talk) 14:36, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, needless. But it looks like most of the errors found by the bot are things that can and should be fixed, e.g., typos like "Hungaru" instead of "Hungary" (which I just fixed) and obsolete links left over from page moves. So to help editors like RR64 focus on things that really make a difference, I don't mind a little bit of complication. It's my little bit to facilitate the overall improvement of the encyclopedia. An even better solution would be to make the bot smarter, but that requires more research and time than I'm willing to invest. YBG (talk) 14:46, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Not jumping for joy, but I think it is OK if editors like Redrose64 understand this database-dump-limitation quirk and so can edit/notedit accordingly.

BTW, I met this solution I already employed (the table rows are in-article today, so no top-v-t-e-links useful): {{Isotopes table}}. Looks nice imo. -DePiep (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Template problems

Hello, YBG,

It seems that you added a CSD tag to Template:List of aqueous ions/row/sandbox which has now caused every template that includes this one to have a speedy deletion tag on them. Are all of the templates in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion by user supposed to be deleted? Can you fix this? If you have a template you want deleted, maybe approach an administrator so that the CSD tag doesn't get transcluded on other templates. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:43, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

@Liz: Thank you. I meant to change the calling template before adding the CSD tag. It should all be OK now. YBG (talk) 03:34, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, templates are an area I don't understand so thank you for fixing the problem. The templates are gone from the CSD category now. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:12, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

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U.S. state and territory temperature extremes

Hi. The data from Hawaii from the NOAA page, as per "Unreferenced data assumed to be from NOAA" --Jbaranao (talk) 02:00, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Jbaranao: Thank you for the explanation. Feel free to restore your edit, but please make sure you include an edit summary. Edit summaries are always a good idea, but especially when doing something that could be viewed some skepticism, such as removing a reference. I occasionally forget to include an edit summary myself, and so I have selected the preference that reminds me when I forget. Thank you for your contributions, and happy editing. YBG (talk) 03:22, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Dutch Bros History request

Hi there! I'm following up on some interest you expressed on the Dutch Bros Talk page. I responded to your comments about my History request but didn't hear back, so I thought I’d reach out a little more directly. If you feel I didn't quite address your concerns, I'm happy to discuss further. Otherwise, any additional time and input you might be willing to give to help me with my draft is much appreciated. Thanks in advance! Hillaryjbrown (talk) 04:46, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Invitation to discussion: FAC 4 nomination of nonmetal

Please accept this note as an invitation to participate in the discussion of this latest FAC nomination for the nonmetal article.

The context is that you were involved in the FAC 3 discussion for the article (which was not prompted) or you are an editor who made a recent edit to the nonmetal article.

Thank you. Sandbh (talk) 07:05, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

"Swearing in of John Adams" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Swearing in of John Adams and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 26#Swearing in of John Adams until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. JJLiu112 (talk) 02:09, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Template:List of aqueous ions

Template:List of aqueous ions has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 13:10, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:List of aqueous ions/row/cell

Template:List of aqueous ions/row/cell has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:07, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:List of aqueous ions/notes

Template:List of aqueous ions/notes has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:07, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:List of aqueous ions

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NaCl images

Here’s what I had in mind to replace the picture and quote is at Nonmetal § Halogen nonmetals

sodium (Na),chlorine (Cl), and table salt (NaCl)
Corrosive chlorine, a halogen nonmetal, combines with highly reactive sodium to form stable, unreactive table salt.

YBG (talk) 00:45, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Periodic table (list of metalloid lists)

Template:Periodic table (list of metalloid lists) has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Kjerish (talk) 19:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

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“Metal” & “nonmetal” in their articles

Counts on 12/19/2023
Directly counted	“…”
Minus partial matches	(… per se)

Metal/Nonmetal articles

358  234  (metal per se) - includes metallic
 18  246  “nonmetal” - includes nonmetallic
  9   53  “metalloid”
  3    2  “metallicity”
387  536  “metal” total

Other article pairs for comparison

Vertebrate/Invertebrate articles

126   17  (vertebrate per se)
  6   93  “invertebrate”
133  110  “vertebrate” total

Rational/Irrational number articles

110   46  (rational per se)
 12  104  “irrational”
122  150  “rational” total

Algebraic/Transcendental number articles

65   53  “Algebraic”
 6  106  “Transcendental”
71  159  (total) 

YBG (talk) 16:17, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Sandbh: As an aside, I’m wondering if you could speculate why “metal” is mentioned so much more in nonmetal than “vertebrate” is in invertebrate, or “rational” in irrational, or “algebraic” in transcendental number? Can you think of any other similar pairs of opposites worth comparing? YBG (talk) 21:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

In chemistry, the properties of nonmetals are often understood in terms of how they differ from metals. This contrast is fundamental to explaining what nonmetals are, hence the frequent mention of "metal" in the context of "nonmetal." On the other hand, terms like "invertebrate," "irrational," and "transcendental number" are defined by the absence of certain characteristics (backbones, rationality, algebraic properties) but do not always require the direct contrast to their counterparts for their definition or understanding.

Metals were known and used since antiquity, so much of early chemistry was focused on metals. As a result, when nonmetals were studied, they were often described in terms of how they differed from the already familiar metals. In education, students typically learn about metals before nonmetals, so the teaching and discussion of nonmetals often references metals for context.

Other similar pairs: acids and bases; cations and anions; matter and antimatter; conductors and insulators; day and night. --- Sandbh (talk) 00:12, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

@Sandbh: Thank you, this stimulates more thinking. In retrospect, another significant difference occurs to me: in the other pairs (vertebrate/invertebrate, rational/irrational, algebraic/transcendental), there is a clear single-property that distinguishes the two: the presence of a backbone, being equal to the ratio of integers, and being the solution of a polynomial with integer coefficients. I suspect that if there were a universally accepted single-property distinction between metal and nonmetal, the comparisons would have seemed significantly less necessary. If you were to create a table to contrast the other pairs, it would end up being something rather trivial:

• (has a backbone) vs. (lacks a backbone)
• (equals the ratio of two integers) vs. (not the ratio of any two integers)
• (equals the solution to a polynomial with integer coefficients) vs. (not the solution to a polynomial with integer coefficients)

You might be able to add another row or two to such tables, but it would certainly not be anywhere near a interesting or necessary as the contrasts between metals and nonmetals.

Thanks! YBG (talk) 01:11, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Surely there are nonmetallic elements, such as carbon and sulphur, that were as well known to the ancients as gold and copper. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:42, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

In terms of physics, there is a clear single property: (has a Fermi surface) vs. (lacks a Fermi surface). It's just that physicists would be more interested in classifying simple substances than abstract chemical elements, so allotropy in C and As poses a problem if you want to apply it to chemical elements. With that said, physical and chemical properties of elements change under pressure too (e.g. polyhydrides showing unusual valencies), so chemistry also inherently has this issue.

In education, metals and nonmetals are surely introduced at about the same time. After all, nonmetals are the majority if you stick to the first three rows, where beginning chemistry courses usually start. I would need to research more to say anything about the history, but something that might be relevant is that the elemental gases H₂, N₂, and O₂ were not really identified correctly until Lavoisier's time. Double sharp (talk) 12:17, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

The problem is a lack of a “universally accepted single-property distinction” between metals and nonmetals. YBG (talk) 16:21, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, that definition is universally accepted by physicists. So, it seems to me that the issue is that there is a single-property distinction accepted by one field using the term but not another. Double sharp (talk) 17:27, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Yup. That’s the problem when universal ain’t really universal. YBG (talk) 17:42, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Happy New Year, YBG!

Happy New Year!

YBG,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
^Complex/_Rational 03:55, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

^Complex/_Rational 03:55, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, @ComplexRational! Same to you and yours! I note that you still have a few minutes left of the old year, but I still have over three hours. Your Atalanta BC has been enjoying the new year for nearly six hours, and @Sandbh for nearly 16 hours. YBG (talk) 04:59, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Happy New Year! Double sharp (talk) 09:27, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

thought of your skill with tables/diagrams

Do you have any suggestions on how the tables at Candidates Tournament could be made clearer? Double sharp (talk) 05:02, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I’ll have a look. YBG (talk) 05:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Those tables are complicated! I’ll start to nibble around the edges. YBG (talk) 05:54, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Double sharp: I did some initial tweaking, replacing punctuation in all numbered lists with simple newlines so that the numbers line up. I’d be interested to know what you think.

For the next step, I’d suggest working on the last three columns. The candidates winners and the seeded into final conveying the same type of information: finals contestants and how they qualified. I’d suggest combining them into two pairs of lines: yyyy champion: / name / candidates winner: / name. The last column includes (1) venue, date, format then (2) results. It is possible that this could also be combined with the info in the previous columns, but I can’t tell for sure.

After regularizing the format of the last three columns into one or two new columns, only then do I think it would be time to start thinking about the previous columns.

— YBG (talk) 06:28, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Highly conductive nonmetals

Highly conductive nonmetals
(with range of metals)

Thermal W m−1 K−1
antimony 24.3	arsenic 50	carbon 2000
6.3 to 429 (neptunium - silver)
Electrical S•cm−1
antimony 2.3 × 104	arsenic 3.9 × 104	carbon 3 × 104
0.69 × 104 to 63 × 104 (manganese - silver)

@Sandb: I think this little table is superior to the prose note in nonmetal, but I can’t figure out how to get it into the note and I don’t think it belongs in the main text.

References

YBG (talk) 07:03, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

It should probably be noted that this is in the in-plane electrical conductivity for carbon. Perpendicular to the planes its conductivity is lower than any metal.

Is the thermal conductivity supposed to be for graphite or diamond? We should probably say which, though both are high. But in fact this has nothing to do with metallicity: all the network-covalent nonmetals join the true metals. (Se and Te are a bit below the range of metals, but there is a big gap between them and the molecular nonmetals. For black phosphorus, see these papers.) I guess the major factor here should be large lattice structures reducing phonon scattering. Double sharp (talk) 08:58, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@Double sharp: The thermal conductivity for C is as graphite, in the direction of its planes. This is stated in the associated part of the article: "Among nonmetallic elements, good electrical and thermal conductivity is seen only in carbon (as graphite, along its planes), arsenic, and antimony." --- Sandbh (talk) 05:10, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see that YBG had already mentioned this to you. --- Sandbh (talk) 05:11, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

@Sandbh: Yes, all has been clarified. But thanks for the ping regardless! Double sharp (talk) 07:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

@ Double sharp: This table is intended to replace note 8 which currently says

Thermal conductivity values for metals range from 6.3 W m−1 K−1 for neptunium to 429 for silver; cf. antimony 24.3, arsenic 50, and carbon 2000.[30] Electrical conductivity values of metals range from 0.69 S•cm−1 × 10⁴ for manganese to 63 × 10⁴ for silver; cf. carbon 3 × 10⁴,[31] arsenic 3.9 × 10⁴ and antimony 2.3 × 10⁴.[30]

The note is attached to this sentence:

Among nonmetallic elements, good electrical and thermal conductivity is seen only in carbon (as graphite, along its planes), arsenic, and antimony. which covers your concerns.

However, I think it would be better to move the weasel words into the note and shorten the in-text sentence.

I propose changing the sentence to say:

Among nonmetallic elements, only carbon, arsenic, and antimony are good conductors of both heat and electricity.

then change the table header to

Nonmetals with good electrical and thermal conductivity

and add a footer to the table:

Carbon values are for graphite which conducts electricity well only along its planes.

and finally, fix the refs; I incorrectly assumed all electrical values were from one ref and all thermal from the other.

YBG (talk) 14:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

RFA2024 update: no longer accepting new proposals in phase I

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To read proposals that were closed as unsuccessful, please see Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase I/Closed proposals. You are cordially invited once again to participate in the open discussions; when phase I ends, phase II will review the outcomes of trial proposals and refine the implementation details of other proposals. Another notification will be sent out when this phase begins, likely with the first successful close of a major proposal. Happy editing! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her), via:

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