Talk:Frost

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Alternative images

A previous alternative image is
[[Image:Frost on ground.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Frost on the ground]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Solipsist (talk • contribs) 18:50, 27 December 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Non public references

Is it really of any use to have an external link that requires an account to use? Window Frost Images & Art - Frost Wawa-nator (talk) 16:33, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, external links should provide a large amount of material to anyone using the link. I've removed the one in question. Kuru talk 16:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 09:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

hoarfrost, frost, hoar frost

'hoar frost' does not show up in my dictionaries, while dictionary.com lists 'hoar' as: 1. hoarfrost; rime. 2. a hoary coating or appearance. so 'hoar frost' (not joined) would be "hoarfrost frost", which is a tautology, i think, so imo all instances of 'hoar frost' in the hoarfrost section should be replaced with either 'hoar' or 'hoarfrost'. anyone agree with the idea?--Ghazer (talk) 20:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article does not show clearly the difference between frost and hoar frost. I have read some English dictionaries and techical glossaries and it seems that the word "frost" means mainly air frost, i.e. a temperature below freezing point (32 °F or 0°C) but it can mean also the solid deposition of water vapour from saturated air on cold surfaces, more commonly called hoar frost or hoarfrost. A possible solution would be to transform this page into a disambiguation one with two links: one to air frost (temperature below freezing point) and one to hoar frost (solid deposition of ice crystals)--Carnby (talk) 14:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Commonly called by who? I have never heard air temperature referred to as frost. Sometimes "frosty", but technical meteorological definitions aside, I think for non-specialists frost refers to the ice crystals that form on solid surfaces. older ≠ wiser 11:49, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Frost heaving

I've removed the following text from the article: "Road surfaces can also be damaged through a process known as frost heaving." The frost heaving article makes it clear that frost heaving is due to "the freezing of water-saturated soil" rather than "the solid deposition of water vapor from saturated air". Sagsaw (talk) 03:02, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Needle ice

The article ought to mention needle ice, which in my mind is a form of frost, and was what brought me to this article. It took a while to discover the term "needle ice" as the proper name for what I saw.Tedtoal (talk) 19:16, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Effect on plants (overview)

Can we get a citation for the lack of nucleation sites as the cause of supercooled liquid in plant cells? I would imagine that nucleation sites are plentiful and that an anti-freezing molecular process has evolved to protect the cell. 82.32.107.102 (talk) 07:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article states: "Frost causes economic damage when it destroys plants or hanging fruits." I don't see how frost as meant in this article could cause damage to plants. I take it that in the quoted sentence frost means "sub-freezing temperature", which can be associated with the deposition of frost. But does the frost formation really damage plants, or is it rather the freezing temperature? Due to this I'd remove the quoted sentence, but perhaps I'm missing something, so decided to ask for opinions here. Skaranko (talk) 08:27, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ground frost and grass frost

Television weather reports in the UK used to mention Ground frost but this seems to have been replaced by Grass frost. Are they the same thing and what is the definition? Biscuittin (talk) 22:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Business" tag

I strongly vote for removing the tag. The four fotos shown are not too much for this article. They are reasonably spaced. jaknouse (talk) 21:43, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I feel that the number of photographs is adequate and not excessive.Rosser Gruffydd 18:03, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I feel hard frost is overrated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.84.11 (talk) 21:27, 23 October 2011 (UTC) [reply]

Picture of the Year candidate

Fleur de givre

This image is a candidate for Picture of the Year over at Commons, and I just wanted to bring it to the attention of this article's caretakers . At a larger size, it shows quite a lot of detail. In fact, I wonder whether instead of so many small images in galleries, the article might be better served with fewer images, but at least one at a larger size that would show the crystalline structure better. I don't watch this page, so just dropping by. Cynwolfe (talk) 18:29, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Problem: Fahreheit and Celsius both used in article

The section "Effect on plants => Overview" mentions "28-32 degrees Fahrenheit", "25 degrees Fahrenheit", "−4°C to −12°C", "−2°C". None of them are explained in the other units. MAKE UP YOUR MIND WIKIPEDIA! As it is, fewer people understand than if only Fahrenheit or only Celsius were used.5.12.158.139 (talk) 21:09, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. This happens editors don't check the format used by previous editors. Mindmatrix 23:06, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Window frost at the outside of windows

> Window frost [...] forms when a glass pane is exposed to very cold air on the outside and moderately moist air on the inside.

Either the image of the car is not an example of window frost or the definition is too narrow because the frost there (as usual for frost on car windows) appears to be on the outside and therefore moisture and cold were not on opposite sides of the glass pane. I also only know the definition given in the article right now but I couldn't say what the structural difference would be so frost experts to the rescue. --Mudd1 (talk) 04:17, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a sentence about frost on car widows but we really need some more citations for these explanations. As a matter of interest, a question was asked in New Scientist in 2007 about how this "Ice vine" pattern forms. There was only only reply from a Steve Antczac who said he occasionally finds this pattern in the ice on his conservatory roof (and he supplied a photo of an almost identical pattern). He said: "The ice vines seem most likely to form on frosty evenings after mild, sunny winter days when air pressure is high, the sky is clear and there is a gentle breeze. At these times, bands of condensation form on the glass with dry stretches between them. I assume that the breeze flowing over the conservatory frame, which stands about 4 centimetres above the glass, sets up an oscillation in the air, rather like the waves produced in a wind instrument such as a recorder or a whistle. As the air touches the glass, chills it and bounces off again, this may form the bands, which always run parallel to the frame, although the width of the bands varies with wind speed. Generally, the "stems" of the ice vines follow the direction of the frame, so it appears that the bands of condensation and the ice vines are somehow linked". Here is the link to the correspondence but I'm afraid it's (subscription required) Richerman (talk) 10:51, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Lead Section: Frost Damage?

The Lead section claims that "the coating or deposit of ice..... composed of delicate branched patterns of ice crystals formed as the result of fractal process development"...kills crops.

Being an ex-citrus farmer from Central California, and familiar with "frost damage," I don't think so. I believe it's the temperature (freezing plant tissue) that damages. ...several hours below 27°F.

The Lead is mixing up and confusing the definitions of frost. Our most common usage in Fresno Ca is definition is C: "We had frost last night." "They predict a hard frost next week." 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/frost     a :the process of freezing      c :the temperature that causes freezing

Skaranko (talk) raised this question 8 April 2011. The article should point out that there are multiple definitions (used within).
--2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:6591:4FC6:3374:5763 (talk) 21:35, 17 October 2017 (UTC)Doug Bashford[reply]

Yes, I agree that it's not the frost you can see that causes the damage - the presence of frost on the outer surfaces is only an indication that air temperatures are low enough to cause tissue damage. I've rewritten the section on frost damage in the lead to say this. Richerman (talk) 09:33, 19 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)

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Lede definition

The definition in the lede doesn't seem quite right. I know the lede is mainly for children and newcomers, so it should be rather simplified, but it should also be as accurate as possible too.

The problem I see is that it says that the atmosphere must be above freezing while the surface is below. While this is true in some instances, such as frost that forms on the inside of a window in a warm house on a cold day, in most cases it's not. In most settings (ie: outdoors) it's rather impossible to chill objects before the atmosphere. Frost forms the most when the atmosphere itself is below freezing, and as someone who lives in Alaska I have to deal with it a lot.

Air always contain a certain amount of water dissolved into it. That's how puddles evaporate and clouds form. It's very temperature dependent; the hotter the air, the more water it can hold; the colder the less. The dew point is a measure of the air's humidity, based on what temperature the water will condense on a surface. Air at 40 degrees F can hold a good amount of water, and air at -40 F is much drier. When the temperature of the air drops below its dew point, the excess water molecules are literally squeezed out and through a process of nucleation those molecules begin to condense on any nearby surface. When the temperature is above freezing, liquid dew forms, but when its below freezing, water crystals form without passing through a liquid state.

There are certain combinations of temperatures and pressures where this is most prominent, which corresponds to the typical altitudes where clouds form. Under most conditions a sheet of numerous small crystals will form, but under the right conditions large and elaborate crystals will form (typically around 0F and -10F at sea level). In those cases if there's no solid surface it turns to snow, but in a good ice fog the frost may grow into long, knifelike blades covering everything. Zaereth (talk) 01:24, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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